Age? 35 -Which 19-nor substance gave you PDD (Deca, Tren, NPP etc.)? Cycle length? Dosage? Deca - Was running 2ml test e and 2ml deca per week, cant remember the dosage but I would guess around 600mg test e and 200-400mg deca for 12 weeks. -Date your PDD started May 2012 -Has it been at least 6 months since you last administered the said 19-nor and have your Testosterone, Free Test and Estrogen levels returned to normal either naturally or through TRT? (If the answer to either of these is no then we should be cautious to assume that you actually have PDD. Your focus should be optimising your Test levels) Yes -Are you now on TRT or have your Test/ Free Test/ Estro levels returned to normal naturally? TRT - Test e and HCG -Give a rating for the following out of 10 compared with before PDD. 10/10 means the same as before (feel free to give further comments): -Sex drive - 3/10 -Erection quality - 8/10 -Orgasm Quality - 9/10 -Ability to experience negative emotion - 9/10 - Can feel negative but unable to cry. -Ability to experience positive emotion - 9/10 - Can have long periods of feeling positive. -Ability to experience feelings of confidence (feeling good about being you) - 9/10 - Comes in waves. -Feelings of pleasure seeking - 8/10 - Comes in waves/depends where my T levels are at. -Feelings of hunger (thinking about what you will eat and salivating) - 10/10 -Ability to handle stress/ not be affected by stress - 9/10 - I don't really get stressed over little things. -Memory and cognitive ability - 8/10, much better than before but memory of names is a problem. -Sleep quality - 10/10 -Energy levels - 8/10 - Good when on certain TRT dosages. -Depression - 9/10 -Anxiety - 9/10 -Have you seen any change (improvement or worsening) of symptoms since PDD started? Do you know what brought about these changes? Big improvements from the use of high dose HCG, majority of symptoms have resolved, libido is the main issue I still struggle with. -During or after your cycle, did you experience any digestive issues? (Bloating, diarrhea, constipation etc) No -Any other symptoms of PDD or changes you think were caused by PDD? Penile shrinkage, dry penis glans, watery semen, head hair quality regressed, muscle wastage, fat gain, gynecomastia. (Bascially all the same symptoms as someone with Post Finasteride Syndrome) -Any other comments? Hey folks, wanting to share my story in hopes someone can make improvements from what has helped me. Im originally from the UK and have suffered from deca dick for coming up 11 years, had zero improvements through years 0-6, started making big improvements through years 6-8 and have made slow further improvements through years 8-10. Years 0-6 - I had no idea what was wrong with me during this time, as you are well aware it was a living hell of symptoms, low libido, dick was shrivelled and cold to touch, penis head was dry and on a the rare occasion I had an erection the head was always soft, extreme fatigue, depression, unable to exercise, brain fog to name a few, I thought my life was over. I stayed away from all steroids in hopes I could recover naturally, tried natural herbs/supplements, test boosters, vitamins, even spent a month in India at an Ayurvedic Wellness Retreat (a retreat where you do nothing except eat organic foods, perform yoga, meditate, receive massages and consult a Dr who provides you with natural supplements). I visited endocrinologists and had multiple blood tests, all showing my levels were fine. After having no luck with that route i decided to go back onto test e in the hopes it would resolve my issues if I had higher than normal test levels in my body, this done nothing for me, it was like my body wouldn't respond to test anymore, I tried various dosages from 100mg per week to 1000mg per week over the course of a year, as a result I decided to come off again and start a PCT, I ran Dr Mike Scalleys Power PCT Protocol and this is where i first started seeing improvements. https://www.elitefitness.com/forum/threads/the-famous-power-pct-program-by-dr-michael-scally.790823/ Years 6-8 - Started Power PCT and noticed improvements with my penis, the glans filled out more, size was returning, had less frequent hard flacid states, energy levels were improving and had brief moments of a return in libido. I tried taking clomid on its own, no improvements. but had great numbers on paper. Tried taking tamoxifen on its own, no improvements but great numbers on paper, then tried high dose HCG on its own and started seeing further improvements. I would run the HCG solo for 3 weeks at 2500iu mon/wed/fri, then take 3 months off as i was worried about leydeg cell desensitisation in the testicles from the high dosage, each time I performed this i saw improvements and they always stuck around after I stopped the HCG. I was finally able to exercise again, put on muscle and was even able to have sex however the libido was very inconsistent. I performed this routine 4 times with the fourth time making no further improvements. Years 8-10 - By around this time period i had rectified the majority of my issues, however libido was still pretty poor. I decided to try TRT (self induced) to see if I would now respond to the test, I started on 150mg per week split into everyday dosages along with 100iu HCG daily. The first few months I felt 100% back to normal, great muscle gains, high libido, consistently having sex and energy levels through the roof, however this did not last and I have been trying different dosage & frequency throughout the last 1.5 years and have tried lower and higher dosages, libido would return for short periods of time but would never last. I am either going past my sweet spot or the dosage changes is whats making my libido return. I am currently residing in New Zealand and have finally found a TRT doctor (they are very hard to come by here) who may be able to help me dial in my protocol, so hoping to see him in the next few weeks. Anyway if anyone has questions then feel free to ask, I realise this is a long post but this is a very shortened version of the things I have tried and researched throughout the years.

@"ALI-B"#p122 Hi Ali, glad you found the site. Sorry, I've only just seen your post. I think it's a good sign that you've seen remission of your symptoms for a period of time. That seems like a high dose of HCG, was that 2500iu per week or 7500iu per week? Just tagging the other guys so that they see your post @"define"#48 @"leeds24"#7 By the way, how did you find the site?

I was going to say that’s a pretty high dose of HCG most see improvement at much lower doses with less risk to desensitisation

Yeah it was 2500iu three times a week, so 7500iu per week in total. I realise this is a high dose but at the time I was in a pretty bad way and was willing to try anything at that point, for me personally it was the HCG that improved my symptoms the most and the only thing that rectified the majority of my issues even when off it. I was actually googling permanent deca dick to see if any new posts had been made in the forums over the last couple of years, I have only ever found a few posts with people in the similar situation from deca and I just so happened to come across this site, I think it was quite far down the Google search though.

@"ALI-B"#p137 You only saw improvements until you started HCG? did you have disassociation?

@"define"#p138 Yeah only saw improvements once I started HCG. Yes had dissacotiation and very bad anhedonia, never got pleasure in things that I use to enjoy, music, gaming etc and would never get excited about upcoming events like going on holiday or christmas, that has resolved now.

@"ALI-B"#p139 I'm in the same boat you were in. I'm in this sort of creepy dream state, kind of detached from my surroundings. Along with anhedonia and the other BS like cognition problems. I have a lot of HCG. I will have to try the method that helped you. During the 3 months off HCG, what did you take to keep your test levels up?

Yeah the cognitive symptoms are horrendous, I remember thinking at one point I must have developed ADD as my ability to concentrate on tasks was so bad, constant brain fog and had trouble getting my words out while talking to people. I actually didn't take anything when I came off the HCG. I would just stop cold turkey, I actually found my test levels would bounce back fairly quickly this way. I know this goes against everything we have been told with regards to PCT but for me personally it worked better than clomid/tamoxifen. When I would take clomid/tamoxifen after HCG my numbers where very high on the drugs (sitting around 35/36 nmol/L) however it never felt like I had test in my system and as soon as I stopped them my numbers would plummet all the way down to 9/10 nmol/L and literally take 6 months to crawl back up to baseline of around 19/21 nmol/L with good free test numbers. When coming off HCG cold turkey my numbers would bounce back to baseline in a matter of weeks, I tested this with bloodwork multiple times both with the clomid/tamoxifen and with HCG only. I watched a YouTube video by the Anabolic Doc who talks about this, he said something along the lines of that aslong as testicle Leydig cells are switched on your LH/FSH will fire up very quickly in response to external androgen levels leaving your body, the reason it doesn't work after steroid cycles is due to leydig cells shutting down when hcg is not being used and coming off cold turkey would result in relying on your own lh/fsh production trying to switch them on, which is a very slow process. If you wanted to you could use tamox/clomid as a bridge inbetween the HCG blasts, I didn't though as I'm not a fan of these drugs, I personally think they are poisonous to the body, Derek from MPMD has also talked about not being a fan of them as they are not good for the body and block a whole host of other important things your body needs. Last night I read the reddit post/pdf that was posted on this forum about the guys theory for PSSD being a result from estrogen resistance, I think he may actually be onto something as this would explain why my high dose HCG blasts worked for me as my body would of been producing ridiculously high levels of estrogen with that HCG dose.

Also with the 3 months off in-between, I actually think that was a bit overkill/me being overly cautious. One of the times I only waited 6 weeks inbetween HCG blasts and had positive results, if I was to do it again I would probably only wait 6-8 weeks inbetween each blast.

@"ALI-B"#p141 I think I'm also going to give high dose HCG a go soon. I have tried a lower dose - around 500 - 1000iu per week which does seem to have some effect on erections. Maybe I should also come off my trt for this to replicate what you did. Had you tried lower dose HCG prior to the high dose? > @"ALI-B"#p141 I think he may actually be onto something as this would explain why my high dose HCG blasts worked for me as my body would of been producing ridiculously high levels of estrogen with that HCG dose. Surely you would also have been producing high amounts of estrogen when you were on the 1000mg/wk of test in the past which didn't have an effect? The effects of HCG in the body other than stimulating testosterone seem to be pretty unknown. I am currently looking into it in the hope that it can help us understand the mechanism that worked for you.

@"james993"#p143 Yeah you are right, I would of had high estrogen with that amount of test. Im sure he said something about why testoterone alone doesnt work in his PDF but can't remember off the top of my head what it was. I couldn't tell you exactly how it worked as there must be other things going on with the HCG that arent fully understood, possibly helping with progesterone and dhea which would also increase alloprenanolone, which is shown to be decreased with things like finasteride. I never tried low dose hcg prior to the blasts, I have been on 250iu three times a week for the last 1.5 years and that has helped make slow gradual further improvements.

11 Years From Start Of Deca Dick

ALI-B

define Let me know how you get on with the Estro/HCG. Be careful with those bipolar meds, there’s quite a few comments on Ryan’s video from people who have taken them in the past and the side effects sound terrible, seems like Ryan’s not far off from uploading his protocol so might be best waiting until he outlines his full routine before jumping on them. Where do you live that you can just access it from the pharmacy? Is that without a prescription?

define

ALI-B
I'm in Bangkok. I have the sketchy bipolar stuff but not taking it right now. I'll wait for Ryan's video. Plus, I have a daily job. I cannot mess with it now anyway.

1testcyp

ALI-B did you suffer from this soft gland/ head of penis not filling with blood until you did high dose HCG?

ALI-B

1testcyp
Yes mate, it was never filled but the HCG completely rectified that, it was one of the first improvements I noticed when taking the HCG.

1testcyp

I know that lack of androgens in the penis tissue can cause leaky vein syndrome. Which seems to be the cause with soft glass. This and lower libido are my only symptoms. Iv tried HCG and Enclomiphine with trt and DHT gel locally on the penis. I will try high dose HCG next. And sorry guys I will write up my entry post last today and introduce myself. Things have been crazy this time of year

ALI-B

1testcyp
Lower libido is the only symptom I'm left with, it comes and goes, sometimes it's good then can have periods of it being low.
Did you notice anything from the DHT? Also where did you get DHT cream? Seems to be really hard to get hold of.

define

@ALI-B Did you have symptoms of Benign prostatic hyperplasia?

Frequent or urgent need to pee, also called urination.
Peeing more often at night.
Trouble starting to pee.
Weak urine stream, or a stream that stops and starts.
Dribbling at the end of urination.
Not being able to fully empty the bladder.

ALI-B

define

I don't recall having these symptoms. The main issue I had with the prostate was that I would get a lot of pain coming from that area after I had ejaculated, sometimes extremely painful and other times a dull ache, but this no longer happens.

1testcyp

ALI-B do how have any idea how long you should wait between HCG? I just did two bottles of 5000 iu but I was doing it at 500 iu every other day. I will try your high dose protocol. And I got it from alphgels proton mail. It’s not a gels it’s actually a liquid in a dropper. You can also get it at PCTmart.com but they are always sold out Alphagels@protonmail.com. Send them an Email and make an inquiry. It seems sketchy but what they sent me came in in two weeks and is definitely real. And yes I know this sounds like I’m fucking around but as soon as you put it on you see increase in size. Unfortunately I still have soft glands and I doubt the size stays. It looks like your having a above average “good day” flaccid and Iv noticed some erection quality increase

james993

1testcyp As I have already stated, you need to make an introduction post. Currently we do not even know whether or not you have PDD.

Please do this before making any further comments on the forum. Thanks

ALI-B

1testcyp Personally I would do 3/4 weeks with high does hcg and then take another 3/4 weeks off then repeat.
That's interesting about the dht, I had came across the alpha products but I read on the raypeat forum it was a scam, is it definitely legit?

1testcyp

You can do HCG that close together without lowering your response to LH? And yes I haven’t done any blood work done but I’m fairly certain it is legit. They sent it they responded to me the whole time. It did take a day or two for them to get back to me. But yes when you put it on you can tell as soon as you do. Whether this stays after you stop idk. And be sure and shower and wash it off before having sex. It can make a females clitoris enlarged

ALI-B

1testcyp sorry for the late reply mate, been busy with xmas/new year.
From my personal experience I have been fine with that HCG protocol and it didn't lower my response to LH, but I can't 100% say it will be the same for everyone. It seems like there's a lot of contradicting information/studies with regards to LH desentisation from HCG so it's hard to tell when or even if this would actually occur.

define

ALI-B
Yea the desensitisation thing could even be a myth.

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