Age? 35 -Which 19-nor substance gave you PDD (Deca, Tren, NPP etc.)? Cycle length? Dosage? Deca - Was running 2ml test e and 2ml deca per week, cant remember the dosage but I would guess around 600mg test e and 200-400mg deca for 12 weeks. -Date your PDD started May 2012 -Has it been at least 6 months since you last administered the said 19-nor and have your Testosterone, Free Test and Estrogen levels returned to normal either naturally or through TRT? (If the answer to either of these is no then we should be cautious to assume that you actually have PDD. Your focus should be optimising your Test levels) Yes -Are you now on TRT or have your Test/ Free Test/ Estro levels returned to normal naturally? TRT - Test e and HCG -Give a rating for the following out of 10 compared with before PDD. 10/10 means the same as before (feel free to give further comments): -Sex drive - 3/10 -Erection quality - 8/10 -Orgasm Quality - 9/10 -Ability to experience negative emotion - 9/10 - Can feel negative but unable to cry. -Ability to experience positive emotion - 9/10 - Can have long periods of feeling positive. -Ability to experience feelings of confidence (feeling good about being you) - 9/10 - Comes in waves. -Feelings of pleasure seeking - 8/10 - Comes in waves/depends where my T levels are at. -Feelings of hunger (thinking about what you will eat and salivating) - 10/10 -Ability to handle stress/ not be affected by stress - 9/10 - I don't really get stressed over little things. -Memory and cognitive ability - 8/10, much better than before but memory of names is a problem. -Sleep quality - 10/10 -Energy levels - 8/10 - Good when on certain TRT dosages. -Depression - 9/10 -Anxiety - 9/10 -Have you seen any change (improvement or worsening) of symptoms since PDD started? Do you know what brought about these changes? Big improvements from the use of high dose HCG, majority of symptoms have resolved, libido is the main issue I still struggle with. -During or after your cycle, did you experience any digestive issues? (Bloating, diarrhea, constipation etc) No -Any other symptoms of PDD or changes you think were caused by PDD? Penile shrinkage, dry penis glans, watery semen, head hair quality regressed, muscle wastage, fat gain, gynecomastia. (Bascially all the same symptoms as someone with Post Finasteride Syndrome) -Any other comments? Hey folks, wanting to share my story in hopes someone can make improvements from what has helped me. Im originally from the UK and have suffered from deca dick for coming up 11 years, had zero improvements through years 0-6, started making big improvements through years 6-8 and have made slow further improvements through years 8-10. Years 0-6 - I had no idea what was wrong with me during this time, as you are well aware it was a living hell of symptoms, low libido, dick was shrivelled and cold to touch, penis head was dry and on a the rare occasion I had an erection the head was always soft, extreme fatigue, depression, unable to exercise, brain fog to name a few, I thought my life was over. I stayed away from all steroids in hopes I could recover naturally, tried natural herbs/supplements, test boosters, vitamins, even spent a month in India at an Ayurvedic Wellness Retreat (a retreat where you do nothing except eat organic foods, perform yoga, meditate, receive massages and consult a Dr who provides you with natural supplements). I visited endocrinologists and had multiple blood tests, all showing my levels were fine. After having no luck with that route i decided to go back onto test e in the hopes it would resolve my issues if I had higher than normal test levels in my body, this done nothing for me, it was like my body wouldn't respond to test anymore, I tried various dosages from 100mg per week to 1000mg per week over the course of a year, as a result I decided to come off again and start a PCT, I ran Dr Mike Scalleys Power PCT Protocol and this is where i first started seeing improvements. https://www.elitefitness.com/forum/threads/the-famous-power-pct-program-by-dr-michael-scally.790823/ Years 6-8 - Started Power PCT and noticed improvements with my penis, the glans filled out more, size was returning, had less frequent hard flacid states, energy levels were improving and had brief moments of a return in libido. I tried taking clomid on its own, no improvements. but had great numbers on paper. Tried taking tamoxifen on its own, no improvements but great numbers on paper, then tried high dose HCG on its own and started seeing further improvements. I would run the HCG solo for 3 weeks at 2500iu mon/wed/fri, then take 3 months off as i was worried about leydeg cell desensitisation in the testicles from the high dosage, each time I performed this i saw improvements and they always stuck around after I stopped the HCG. I was finally able to exercise again, put on muscle and was even able to have sex however the libido was very inconsistent. I performed this routine 4 times with the fourth time making no further improvements. Years 8-10 - By around this time period i had rectified the majority of my issues, however libido was still pretty poor. I decided to try TRT (self induced) to see if I would now respond to the test, I started on 150mg per week split into everyday dosages along with 100iu HCG daily. The first few months I felt 100% back to normal, great muscle gains, high libido, consistently having sex and energy levels through the roof, however this did not last and I have been trying different dosage & frequency throughout the last 1.5 years and have tried lower and higher dosages, libido would return for short periods of time but would never last. I am either going past my sweet spot or the dosage changes is whats making my libido return. I am currently residing in New Zealand and have finally found a TRT doctor (they are very hard to come by here) who may be able to help me dial in my protocol, so hoping to see him in the next few weeks. Anyway if anyone has questions then feel free to ask, I realise this is a long post but this is a very shortened version of the things I have tried and researched throughout the years.

@"ALI-B"#p122 Hi Ali, glad you found the site. Sorry, I've only just seen your post. I think it's a good sign that you've seen remission of your symptoms for a period of time. That seems like a high dose of HCG, was that 2500iu per week or 7500iu per week? Just tagging the other guys so that they see your post @"define"#48 @"leeds24"#7 By the way, how did you find the site?

I was going to say that’s a pretty high dose of HCG most see improvement at much lower doses with less risk to desensitisation

11 Years From Start Of Deca Dick

ALI-B

Yeah it was 2500iu three times a week, so 7500iu per week in total. I realise this is a high dose but at the time I was in a pretty bad way and was willing to try anything at that point, for me personally it was the HCG that improved my symptoms the most and the only thing that rectified the majority of my issues even when off it.

I was actually googling permanent deca dick to see if any new posts had been made in the forums over the last couple of years, I have only ever found a few posts with people in the similar situation from deca and I just so happened to come across this site, I think it was quite far down the Google search though.

define

ALI-B You only saw improvements until you started HCG?

did you have disassociation?

ALI-B

define Yeah only saw improvements once I started HCG.
Yes had dissacotiation and very bad anhedonia, never got pleasure in things that I use to enjoy, music, gaming etc and would never get excited about upcoming events like going on holiday or christmas, that has resolved now.

define

ALI-B
I'm in the same boat you were in. I'm in this sort of creepy dream state, kind of detached from my surroundings. Along with anhedonia and the other BS like cognition problems.

I have a lot of HCG. I will have to try the method that helped you.

During the 3 months off HCG, what did you take to keep your test levels up?

ALI-B

Yeah the cognitive symptoms are horrendous, I remember thinking at one point I must have developed ADD as my ability to concentrate on tasks was so bad, constant brain fog and had trouble getting my words out while talking to people.

I actually didn't take anything when I came off the HCG. I would just stop cold turkey, I actually found my test levels would bounce back fairly quickly this way. I know this goes against everything we have been told with regards to PCT but for me personally it worked better than clomid/tamoxifen. When I would take clomid/tamoxifen after HCG my numbers where very high on the drugs (sitting around 35/36 nmol/L) however it never felt like I had test in my system and as soon as I stopped them my numbers would plummet all the way down to 9/10 nmol/L and literally take 6 months to crawl back up to baseline of around 19/21 nmol/L with good free test numbers. When coming off HCG cold turkey my numbers would bounce back to baseline in a matter of weeks, I tested this with bloodwork multiple times both with the clomid/tamoxifen and with HCG only. I watched a YouTube video by the Anabolic Doc who talks about this, he said something along the lines of that aslong as testicle Leydig cells are switched on your LH/FSH will fire up very quickly in response to external androgen levels leaving your body, the reason it doesn't work after steroid cycles is due to leydig cells shutting down when hcg is not being used and coming off cold turkey would result in relying on your own lh/fsh production trying to switch them on, which is a very slow process. If you wanted to you could use tamox/clomid as a bridge inbetween the HCG blasts, I didn't though as I'm not a fan of these drugs, I personally think they are poisonous to the body, Derek from MPMD has also talked about not being a fan of them as they are not good for the body and block a whole host of other important things your body needs.
Last night I read the reddit post/pdf that was posted on this forum about the guys theory for PSSD being a result from estrogen resistance, I think he may actually be onto something as this would explain why my high dose HCG blasts worked for me as my body would of been producing ridiculously high levels of estrogen with that HCG dose.

james993

ALI-B I think I'm also going to give high dose HCG a go soon. I have tried a lower dose - around 500 - 1000iu per week which does seem to have some effect on erections. Maybe I should also come off my trt for this to replicate what you did. Had you tried lower dose HCG prior to the high dose?

ALI-B I think he may actually be onto something as this would explain why my high dose HCG blasts worked for me as my body would of been producing ridiculously high levels of estrogen with that HCG dose.

Surely you would also have been producing high amounts of estrogen when you were on the 1000mg/wk of test in the past which didn't have an effect?

The effects of HCG in the body other than stimulating testosterone seem to be pretty unknown. I am currently looking into it in the hope that it can help us understand the mechanism that worked for you.

ALI-B

Also with the 3 months off in-between, I actually think that was a bit overkill/me being overly cautious. One of the times I only waited 6 weeks inbetween HCG blasts and had positive results, if I was to do it again I would probably only wait 6-8 weeks inbetween each blast.

ALI-B

james993
Yeah you are right, I would of had high estrogen with that amount of test. Im sure he said something about why testoterone alone doesnt work in his PDF but can't remember off the top of my head what it was. I couldn't tell you exactly how it worked as there must be other things going on with the HCG that arent fully understood, possibly helping with progesterone and dhea which would also increase alloprenanolone, which is shown to be decreased with things like finasteride.
I never tried low dose hcg prior to the blasts, I have been on 250iu three times a week for the last 1.5 years and that has helped make slow gradual further improvements.

james993

ALI-B Yeah perhaps it's related to increasing allopregnanolone or some neurosteroids but what is interesting is that the positive effects didn't disappear after stopping HCG.

Have you considered doing high dose again?

Regarding the PSSD estrogen theory, I tried hops recently and it didn't have any positive effects although I didn't really take it for long enough. I will be trying again soon.

Have you tried proviron by the way? I find that helpful for libido.

ALI-B

james993 The last time I tried the high dose hcg I didn't notice any further improvements, that was about 2 years ago, I have considered trying it again as I have four boxes of 5000iu HCG on the way. I also have ordered hops and proviron. I have tried mast e previously but didn't notice much from it except my hair started shedding. I am waiting to see a TRT specialist on wedneday as i have high estrogen on my current trt protocol and want to try and dial it in better as my first option. If that doesnt work then I was thinking of trying the hops first along with my trt/hcg, if that doesn't work then 25mg proviron daily for 6 weeks then the hcg blast. Will see if any of those can bring me up to 100% and regain my libido back.
My current numbers are:
Testoterone - 27.4nmol/L (8.7 - 29)
SHBG - 28nmol/L (13 - 49)
Free Testoterone - 692 pmol/L (218 - 681)
Oestradiol - 207 pmol/L (<200)
Prolactin - 166 mIU/L (<400)

Free T4 - 18.0 pmol/L (12.0 - 22.0)
TSH - 1.1 mIU/L (0.27 - 4.20)
Free T3 - 5.9 pmol/L (3.9 - 6.8)

As you can see my free t and estorgen are high, so I have lowered my dose from 150mg pw to 135mg and switched from twice weekly injections to everyday injections, will retest in 5 weeks to see where my numbers are at. Have tried switching dosages before but I believe I was making too much of a jump, sticking to lowering at 15mg a time for now and hoping the trt doctor will be able to prescribe me pharma test instead of relying on underground test.

james993

ALI-B Ah! If your estrogen levels are too high then that could definitely be causing libido issues, you're right to be focusing on that first. If you're going to take an AI to lower it, be extremely careful with your dose. As you're probably already aware, some of the PSSD guys have had their cases permanently worsened a lot by crashing their estrogen.

Also, where did you get your proviron? I've found it's almost impossible to get legit proviron in the UK these days.

ALI-B

james993 .
I'm trying to avoid taking an AI as I want that to be a last option, I did try taking exemestane at 10mg twice per week last year and my E levels crashed very quickly and I felt like shit, I ended up taking a double dose of HCG and test to get them back up quicker and it rectified the problem pretty quickly.

I have a friend who lives in Scotland who deals large quantities of steroids and he posts them for me to New Zealand, takes about 6 weeks to arrive but never had any issues with my stuff getting seized at customs. The labs I use are called Advar UK and their products are really good, had bloodwork done while on them and the dosages seem to be good.

define

ALI-B After each cycle of HCG, were improvements really big or small?

ALI-B

The first one was very noticeable, particularly with filling out my penis glans and erection quality. Flacid length, anhedonia and energy levels were more gradual as time went on/the more cycles I done.
Have you tried it? Any improvements?

define

ALI-B I'm 1 week into it. The sustanon left my body just recently since i stopped 5 weeks ago. Bouts of depression yesterday but a lot less tired. Today the same with less depression.

define

@ALI-B Did you ever get labs done while on HCG?

ALI-B

define

define No never got labs done while on it, wish I did though to see how high it pushed my test up. I definitely noticed my muscles being fuller/extra water weight while on it so knew it was working.

define

ALI-B My total T is 600ng/dl and E2 is at 25pg/ml

ALI-B

define How you feeling?
Were you on HCG while you were running Sustanon?

james993

ALI-B

I gave 2500ui HCG a go last Monday and was feeling tired and having terrible sleep for a week. It's only just getting better now.

define

ALI-B
Did you have dizziness, heart palps, weird vision?
I'm currently on clomid taking a break from HCG.
Also you can talk to us on discord if you have that.