Hi all, I'm 35 yo, British guy and in March 2022 - May 2022 ran Deca for 3 months straight with no PCT. I was missold it and told it was Ibutamoren (a growth-hormone secretagogue), which it **was not**. I wouldn't have ran Deca alone with no PCT otherwise. Around May 2022, I realised I had lost most of the sensation in the head of my penis and my libido had decreased significantly. Since then the numbness has continued to get worse and worse. My libido has essentially flatlined and my penis is cold to the touch. I have always had a very high libido my whole life and this experience has been really tough to manage (especially after the pandemic when I spent nearly 18 months living alone!). To maybe complicate matters, I did run oral Finesteride for 3 months in Nov 22 - Jan 23 which I stopped. That could have made matters worse but I was already numb downstairs so.... My ratings are as follows : -Sex drive: 1/10 -Erection quality: 6/10 - I have 0 morning wood or in the day. It's only when I watch porn can I get mildly hard. -Orgasm Quality 4/10 - My ejaculate doesn't forcefully exit - it's much weaker coming out and doesn't fully expel so there's dribbling afterward -Ability to experience negative emotion - 7/10 -Ability to experience positive emotion - 4/10 -Ability to experience feelings of confidence (feeling good about being you) - 2/10 - I've realised how much my former sex drive was a huge part of my confidence -Feelings of pleasure seeking - 3/10 -Feelings of hunger (thinking about what you will eat and salivating) - 2/10 -Ability to handle stress/ not be affected by stress - 6/10 -Memory and cognitive ability - 4/10 - I'm nowhere near as sharp as I used to be. I have to run meetings with work and now my mind often goes blank, mid-meeting -Sleep quality - 4/10 - I used to hit the pillow and not move for 8 hours. I'm now very inconsistent. For the first year I used to have nightsweats - perhaps my body trying to fix itself but that's stopped now entirely. -Energy levels - 6/10 -Depression - 6/10 -Anxiety 5/10 Last year, after really struggling with the NHS and waiting months and months to see anybody I contacted a Endocrynologist who put me on Proviron for 2 months (one 25mg tablet, twice per day) - made me slightly more hard, but still no sensation. We then moved onto HCG and I've been running that for 2 months (500iu three times per week). It's brought the fullness back to my penis and balls - they're the previous size they were (when not aroused) but there is still no sensation, no morning wood, no libido. I've read on here that guys are taking much higher dosages of HCG...this is something I might try. Any results from using Clematis Combination Drops? I have an appointment with the Andrology Clinic at UCLH in July and then with the Neurologist at UCLH to have a Uronology Test but that's all the way in November 2024 - and the timelines are stressing me out. I've read that the ND can interfere with the morphophysiology of the prostate as well as cause the ED via suppression of the HPG axis. I'm going to ask both professionals at the above departments to scan my dick to see if there is any degeneration in seminiferous tubules caused by ND as it can lead to a spermatogenic dysfunction. Any tips, advice or pointers greatly appreciated. Thanks all, R PS I tried to add a screen grab of blood results but the photo attachment is the same as the link to the left of it

@"ryan8891"#p216 Welcome Ryan! Sorry to hear you've been struggling. Your case does sound like it's more on the severe side. Few questions for you: How did you find this forum? How do you know it was Deca you took? I know you tried to attach your blood result - could you type them out instead with their reference ranges?

@"define"#48 @"ALI-B"#49 @"1testcyp"#52

We'd need to see blood work before we know wether or not this is actually or post nandrolone syndrome or post fina syndrome

Coming up to 2 years

define

james993
I'd say not severe. More mild compared to others, and myself this time last year

ryan8891

Hi both,

Thanks for your responses.

I found the forum on Google Search - I've been trawling the internet for nearly two years trying to solve my problem but only just stumbled upon this site now.

I was sold something called Ibutamoren/MK677 from Predator Nutrition (do not use them!!) and they said on their site it didn't need a PCT as it wasn't an AAS. When I started experiencing these symptoms I emailed them and they then panicked and started back-peddling and telling me that I absolutely had to run a PCT even though their website says not to - ofc this was weeks if not months after I'd stopped (cold turkey) taking the suspected Deca. So I don't know for certain, that it was Nandrolone but my symptoms match it exactly. Plus I gained 6kg - 8kg in 3 months I was taking them. They've discontinued that specific line and rebranded it. If I can find a lab to test the product, I'd be up for buying some more just to test that batch to verify it's legitimacy, or not. Do you know of any sites? There used to be one in Wales, where you'd send it off and they'd do a lab report of the product but I know that's stopped now.

Here are my bloods from last year (Aug 2023) before I started my proviron and hcg (I was told everything looks "normal":
TSH 2.62 mU/L
FREE T3 4.59 pmol/L
FREE THYROXINE 20.9 pmol/L
FSH 2.7 IU/L
LH 5.5 IU/L
OESTRADIOL 113 pmol/L
TESTOSTERONE 19.9 nmol/L
FREE TESTOSTERONE - CALC. 0.441 nmol/L
PROLACTIN 232 mU/L

I am worried I've burnt myself twice. Once through suspected Nandrolone and another later on through Finesteride. I would get boners and horny between taking both, but still the penis was desensitised after Nandrolone but since the Finesteride, I haven't had morning wood either and I have 0 libido.

define

Your testosterone levels aren't great but I'm leaning more towards this being post fin syndrome.

Get @james993 intake first

ryan8891

Right, I hear you. But I had a numb penis (especially the glad) prior to taking the Finesteride and subsequent to taking (what I believed to be) Nandrolone. @james993, what do you reckon on the above?

ryan8891

Did anybody else have headaches when using Deca and nightsweats? I went with Augmented Labs Ibutamoren via Predator Nutrition (total scam)

define

ryan8891 I never had headaches on deca. The thing you took was a pill or injectable liquid?

ryan8891

Copying and pasting an email I sent to Predator Nutrition back in October 2022:

31 Oct 2022, 12:00
to Predator

Hi there,

Since I emailed things have gotten worse. Not with my gyno - that is fine.

The issue I am having is the head of my penis/gland is essentially totally numb - I have no feeling there whatsoever - no pleasure receptors whatsoever. I no longer wake with a morning erection. If I need to urinate, I never have an erection as a reaction to the body needing to urinate. I have unusual headaches that occur and I am generally more anxious, waking in the night often with night sweats with my pillowcase completely drenched. All of these behaviours began in July and are completely foreign to the experiences I have had my whole life.

This all began after I took (regrettably) 12.5 - 20mg of Ibutamoren from March to June this year - roughly a 12 week course.

Another very peculiar and worrying side effect is that I no longer have hangovers. I used to be very sensitive to alcohol. Two glasses of wine and the next morning a headache without failure. I can now have cocktails, beers and spirits in one night and feel virtually nothing. This is very disconcerting.

I have a serious concern that something has altered in my brain causing these symptoms mentioned above. My GP isn't the most proactive but has run tests on my Serum IGF 1 levels, Serum TSH, Serum prolactin, and glucose levels and apparently all are fine.

I am a healthy (normally!) and gym fit, 34 year old.

Please can you help me, in any way, because I'm losing hope and extremely worried this could be something serious.

ryan8891

I took a pills Augmented Labs Ibutamoren via Predator Nutrition. They were probably some bunk stuff...either way, my junk is numb...

ryan8891

Which basically they were not Ibutamoren...I have the exact same side effects as deca pills...

ryan8891

I will never know for sure because I don't have any left to send off to test and they've changed the bottle now and it's most definitely a new batch. Predator Nutrition have a really bad reputation and I didn't do enough research into them. I could buy what they're offering now and get them tested and see what's revealed about the product they claim they are selling. Do you know of anywhere to get gear tested?

ryan8891

@james993 ? @define ?

james993

ryan8891 Sorry, I'm super busy these days. I don't see much point in buying more to get it tested if you do not have any more of the original batch.

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that you took deca. Firstly, because as far as I'm aware, deca does not come in pill form and secondly, because I spend a lot of time in the PSSD community (people who are going through the same thing as us but from taking SSRI's) - in the PSSD community there are sometimes fringe cases of people who took off-the-shelf supplements that behave similarly to SSRI's and they get the same symptoms. Same for the post finasteride community (saw palmeto and lions mane).

What were the positive effects of taking these pills? Did you gain muscle or lose fat in the way you expected or were the results more/ less drastic? Did you get any bloating/ water retention?

Also, it would be helpful if you could add reference ranges to your lab tests.

Which symptoms got worse after taking finasteride?

ryan8891

This was the equivalent of what I took from Predator Nutrition:
https://www.predatornutrition.com/sarms/augmented-labs/ibutareal.html
Who knows if it's the same batch - but unlikely two years later.

The positive side effects were I put on mass - I went from 78kg to maybe 87/88kg and I'm now sitting around 90kg. I'm 189cm so I can carry it. I definitely gained muscle, but didn't look vascular/like I was on gear. Very natural looking. I did get a lot of bloating/water retention and took 6 months to go away. My hunger went through the roof - I was eating non-stop. I couldn't stop eating at one point - which was great for putting on weight/mass. But my sleep became terrible and I had night sweats where I woke up and the whole bed would be drenched in sweat and my pillows soaking. I also had a bad headache at the front of my head and I became very anxious. The headaches and anxiety went around a month after taking the meds. But by that point the sensation in my penis had gone...as if the pleasure receptors had been switched off. And it's become gradually completely numb and morning wood disappeared.

After taking the finesteride/minoxidil combined pill, the lack of sensitivity remained but then my libido took a tanking. Prior to that I would still hook up and use Tadalafil because I was horny, but now the libido has gone.

When you say reference ranges, you want the ranges of what they should be between?

james993

ryan8891 Yes, I mean the ranges they should be between. You should be able to edit your post to add them.

Your case is a bit complicated because we don't really know what you took and also, finasteride seems to have had an affect on you. The PSSD/ PFS community is quite active on Discord. @define and I are sometimes active there. If you like, I can invite you to some of the servers? You may find better information than we are able to offer.

ryan8891

Hi James, I'd appreciate that if you could invite me. This last couple of weeks I've been looking into Ibutamoren (the product I allegedly took) to see if that could have had an effect on me. It works by increasing ghrelin, making you more hungry. But there are some studies that say it could anxiety and stress and ghrelin is linked to that. There's very little literature on mk677/ibutamoren and libido...so I'm struggling a bit.

james993

ryan8891 there are some pretty knowledgable people you'll be able to ask on Discord. Having said this, I want to avoid getting your hopes up - PSSD/ PFS/ PDD are not well understood and recovery is not common at this point in time.

Do you have a discord username? You can let me know here or email it to me if you don't want to post it here.

Also, do remember to add your reference ranges so that I can have a look at what's going on there.

ryan8891

@james993

I actually not on Discord - should I set up a profile? Or can I remain a guest and get access?

Ranges and results below from recent test:

PSA - TOTAL 29 Feb 2024 - 1.73ug/L. < 2.6 R
FSH 29 Feb 2024 - 4.7IU/L. 1.5 - 12.4
LH 29 Feb 2024 - 8.4IU/L 1.7 - 8.6
OESTRADIOL 29 Feb 2024 - 111pmol/L 41.4 - 159
TESTOSTERONE 29 Feb 2024 - 18.7nmol/L. 8.64 - 29
FREE TESTOSTERONE - CALC. 29 Feb 2024 - 0.362nmol/L. 0.2 - 0.62
PROLACTIN 29 Feb 2024 - 220mIU/L. 86 - 324
SHBG 29 Feb 2024 - 36.7nmol/L. 18.3 - 54.1

Thanks again

james993

ryan8891 yes, you'll need to set up a profile. It's pretty easy.

Thanks for sending reference ranges. Your testosterone and free testosterone are a little bit lower than ideal - typically we want to see them towards the upper end of the reference range. LH is also quite high - we want to see that on the lower end of the range.

It could be worth attempting to improve these, however I think it's very unlikely that these are causing your issues. Especially since you've tried HCG and proviron without much success. It would be helpful to see cortisol and DHEA-S levels too but that's if you're open to do more testing.